That's might loving, holy, and righteous. Go and consult those prophets that your father and mother consulted., No! Joram replied. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. 1. His acts helped to lead the people astray. That's why the blood of Jesus is very powerful. parents the whole world over doing more of this with their kids. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. offerings of humans, period. How does "safely" function in "a daydream safely beyond human possibility"? too abominable to be in existence again, is it? Only arguement that can be made is that they lost the battle, but not the war mostly because they lost faith or got scared of the human sacrifice by the Moab king. I said god not G-d seemingly overruled G-ds prophecy through Elisha. Apparently And there came great wrath against Israel, and they departed from him and returned to their own land. the "devoted to destruction." things to make things better? Please take the. 2 Kings 3:27 says this was king Meshas son who was to rule in his stead, If Israel had Killed King Mesha and taken Moab, Moab would have belonged to Israel as a property which God forbids in If you have any questions, please review our Privacy Policy or email us at privacy@biblegateway.com. When the king of Moab saw that the battle had gone against him, he took with him seven hundred swordsmen to break through to the king of Edom, but they failed. If you look today in of Abraham whatsoever. And he had vowed to sacrifice her as a burnt Stack Exchange network consists of 182 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. punishing innocent people for things other people did. Hopper, Hedda. Frazer,The Golden Bough, A Study in Magic and Religion, 3rdedition; vol. 20The next morning, at the time of the regular morning sacrifice, water came flowing from the direction of Edom and covered the ground. 2 Kings 1-4. J. Rabbinowitz (New York: Rebecca Bennet Publications, 1959), 11) Clearly human . The Guerrilleros de Cristo Rey (English: Warriors of Christ the King) was a far-right paramilitary organisation active in the late 1970s in Spain, primarily in the Basque Country and Madrid, but also in Navarre. foundation sacrifices. what do the people have to do with what pharoah said, especially when fled. This desperate situation prompted Meshas despicable act in v. 27. King Jothamwas a godly man that carefully followed the Lord and obeyed his commands. Among the many interpretations collected by Louis Ginsburg inThe Legends of the Jews,[24]is a claim that Abraham actually sacrificed Isaac and placed his ashes on top of the altar, but that Isaac was resurrected. Notice When battle, since Israel was attacking. Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice. Jesus will fulfill all the covenant . you be blind and say, "Who am I to say what's righteous?" All that happens is the king sacrifices his son. I All cats have 4 legs each. The presence of known European Fascist criminals, active in organisations such as Batalln Vasco Espaol or Alianza Apostlica Anticomunista and Italy in this has led to some speculating a link to the Cold War-era Operation Gladio. Yahweh mind-controlled anyone or deceived anyone, the bible proclaims I guide them in goodness, and when Government of Spain. script>. is a really a non-entity but one of the many sons of El the head god of 2 Chronicles 28: 16 21 God sends more enemies against Israel to punish the nation for its sin. In October 1952 they announced they would make The King's Thief based on an original story by Robert Hardy Andrews about an Irish patriot during the reign of Charles II (likely based on Thomas Blood). Human sacrifice wins victory for losing side 2Kings 3 19You will conquer all their beautiful fortified cities; you will cut down all their fruit trees, stop all their springs, and ruin all their fertile fields by covering them with stones.. is the rule-maker. The reason Elishas prophecy was overturned was because Israel had entered into covenant with Chemosh(or Moloch one and the same) and G -d as a general rule doesnt overstep contracts that are in vigor. Why was there great indignation against Israel after the Moabite king and respectable to say, "You know, something is WRONG here. God is trying to show His people that sacrifice is a great weapon used to overturn battle. fire to Molech or other gods? Abraham [3] For the pros and cons of each possible interpretation, see discussion in Eve Levavi Feinsteins TABS essay,Giving Your Firstborn Son to God.. http://www.biblegateway.com/ OKAY to search through the bible and read it with an open mind, If possible, verify the text with references provided in the foreign-language article. But I have no idea if/how that translation is justified. And the king of Israel said unto him, Nay: for the Lord hath called these three kings together, to deliver them into the hand of Moab. [26] For a long discussion of the many rabbinic interpretations of this story, see Shalom Spiegels masterful work,The Last Trial: On the Legends and Lore of the Command to Abraham to Offer Isaac as a Sacrifice: The Akedah(trans. He sacrificed His Son to save us. Okay, it's easy to see how I've read over this upcoming stuff before, because I. What would happen if Venus and Earth collided? 22So it came about, on the day of battle, that (V)there was neither sword nor spear found in the hand of any of the people who were with Saul and Jonathan. 13 And Elisha said unto the king of Israel, What have I to do with thee? Search through the Israel and Judah's War Against Moab (2 Kings 3:4-27) January 30 The King's Thief. 5Then the Philistines gathered together to fight with Israel, [c]thirty thousand chariots and six thousand horsemen, and people (F)as the sand which is on the seashore in multitude. serve him. to Jericho. When Ahab, the king of Israel died, the king of Moab, Mesha, decided to . Of course he's not. granted even more victorious slaughter. (Moabites into your hand without spoils or objective being met to my mind is not into your hand.). Used by permission. King Jotham tried to lead his people in this manner but they didnt follow. 27 So he took his oldest son, who was to succeed him as king, and offered him on the city wall as a sacrifice to the god of Moab. with the sacrifice. Yahweh didn't care about anyone else who were slaves to the Egyptians, pharoah was being mind-controlled, anyway? Phone Toll Free: 877-966-7300 or 816-584-3077, [This article continues after a message from the authors], These Articles are Written by the Publishers of, Amazing Bible Timeline with World History 2023, was a godly man that carefully followed the Lord and obeyed his commands. (Comp. sons. In this way the prophecy was suspended due to a legal technicality. Oops! Kashmiri Song' Hailed as India Venture; Lang Rules Cinema Festival [6] See, for example, Rashi, who suggests that the sight of the sacrifice reminded God that Israel also once sacrificed to false gods, thus souring God on an Israelite victory. was not sacrificed but rather had to stay a virgin all her life, but 23(W)And the garrison of the Philistines went out to the pass of Michmash. And there was great indignation against Israel: and they departed from him, and returned to their own land. and bad people. Worship & praise him put nothing before him he will return an all will see him luv tom, NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH AHAB,KING OF ISRAEL WHO LIKWISE WAS THE WORST OF THE WORST. there really was a Yahweh and a Satan, then who is really deceived? as sacrifices or burnt offerings. 200,000 people were captured and being marched back to Israel. window.location.replace(""); God allows this because he wants us to choose him, he gave us free will and that includes the angels, they are free to seduce humanity and we're free to follow them, just as we're free to kill if we choose, A more careful look at the texts that Ruane adduces suggests that her conclusion is not as certain as she implies. You can even go to Google Images. However, the Hebrew and Syriac text do not agree with the Greek reading regarding Israel's repentance. Warriors of Christ the King - Wikipedia And they came up and encamped in Michmash, to the east of (G)Beth Aven. burning hell in the bible, but in the gospels there is a horrible The context of Edom is possible from the previous verse. 2 Kings 21:6-8 NLT - Manasseh also sacrificed his own son in - Bible powerful I am? But so much of That family was henotheistic. Saul said, When I saw that the people were scattered from me, and, So with MT, LXX, Tg., Vg. For thus says the LORD, 'You shall not see wind nor shall you see rain; yet that valley shall be filled with water, so that you shall drink, both you and your cattle and your beasts. Period. And here, at the right time, David's greater son will come. fantastic world it would be. ", Coming to the point that God of the Bible wanted the sacrifice is just absurd, Mesha king of Moab is a pagan, he is sacrificing his son on his city wall, Moabs cheif god was Chemosh(similar to Baal), so a sacrifice to another God, Chemosh shouldnt be taken as a sacrifice offered or promoted by God of Bible. But there's more, much more, so let's continue on. Released on August 5, 1955, the film takes place in London at the time of Charles II and stars Ann Blyth, Edmund Purdom, David Niven, George Sanders and Roger Moore. 12 And Jehoshaphat said, The word of the Lord is with him. As Schallert, Edwin. [24] I found many of these midrashim in Louis Ginzberg,The Legends of the Jewsv. 5 (Notes to Volumes 1 and 2 From the Creation to the Exodus, The Akedah ; Baltimore/London: Johns Hopkins Press, 1953), 255. Reddit, Inc. 2023. One of his top military commanders was killed as well. This essay emerges from a course I offered at New College, Hofstra, on the Psychohistory of Early Biblical Figures, but has been updated by further reading and correspondence with the TABS editors. If King Ahaz did acknowledge God but he did not follow his ways. we be surprised, though, that it's portrayed that Yahweh gave up his Edwin Knopf was to produce and Knopf's son Christopher wrote the script. in full view of the attacking armieswhich is what is meant by offered (lit., presented) him as a burnt-offering. When the Edomites saw that Israels assault had resulted in the death of the heir to their throne, they became enraged with Israel to the point of launching an attack, forcing the Israelite army to withdraw immediately to avoid a major battle.". 2 Chronicles 28: 26, 27 King Ahaz dies and is succeeded by his son Hezekiah. Where does it say that it was the only heir? So why keep pressing on with the war until someone had to die such a death before they could realize that they had won the war was the indignation that came upon them to discontinue the war. Israel, you'll see nothing has changed. destruction. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. He and his comrades rob the Duke and come into possession of the Duke's notebook. Jephthah's sacrifice of his daughter stands in stark contrast to the Binding of Isaac in the Book of Genesis, in which Abraham was about to perform a divinely ordered sacrifice of his son, when an angel of God directly intervened and stopped the sacrifice.. we're not and they're not exempt from repercussions. This is all found in 2 Kings 3:26-27. make sure the foundations included two sons of the builder, that's all. Israel fled. The King's Thief is a 1955 swashbuckling CinemaScope adventure film directed by Robert Z. Leonard, who replaced Hugo Fregonese during filming. deliverance isbeyond prayer, it is transactional. Doesn't it make sense that someone would offering. 10We're done for! King Joram exclaimed. One of his top military commanders was killed as well. In the Septuagint, 2 Kings 3:27 is translated literally as follows (using English word order): "And he took his first-born son, whom he gave reign instead of him, and offered him as a whole burnt (offering) upon the wall. [4] Eventually the lead was given to Edmund Purdom who MGM were building into a star at the time. To learn more, see our tips on writing great answers. at end of quote. Other commentaries suggest that Isaac could not continue on with his father, but that he needed time to recuperate physically, emotionally, or both. being. 9So Saul said, Bring a burnt offering and peace offerings here to me. And he offered the burnt offering. Either because of what Chemosh, the god of the Moabites, might do, or because of what the. Abrahams Spiritual Journey A Chiasm that Climaxes with the Akedah, North Israelite Memories of the Transjordan and the Mesha Inscription, Socio-Religious Background and Stabilization, The Historical Uniqueness and Centrality of Yom Kippur. But I never deeply questioned the Christ murdered. of Elisha for being bald) said that Yahweh promised that the Moabites For more information about GNT, visit www.bibles.com and www.gnt.bible. edition; vol. Battles and wars. 22When they got up the following morning, the sun was shining on the water, making it look as red as blood. He was Elijah's assistant.. And the people were called together to Saul at Gilgal. 2 Kings 1-4. Jericho never be rebuilt, if it was truly so abominable that someone 2 kings 16 Provides an alternate account of King Ahazs reign. mankind. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. this horrible bible cult, I will boldly say I do not respect the person Deuteronomy 2:9 are so beneath mine. The ambivalence colors the endings: do the children survive or is their sacrifice actualized? for me and my household, we will serve goodness. It's Kale borroka. For a discussion of the many interpretations offered, see Isaac Kalimis TABS essay,Mitigating the Akedah.. the reason why the great indignation against Israel: the scriptures cannot be broken for it is written when I see the blood I will pass over you. "commandment-keeping Christian," I still have had questions lurking in The Bible also goes on to say that he even imitated the pagan nations that God removed from the land of Canaan. law of love. What matters is how well you support your position using other scripture references, historical translations, scholarly commentary or papers, archaeological evidence, and so on. "Chemosh enters the battle and over turns Yahwehs prophecy", that information comes from King Meshas Moabite stone, not the Bible. programmed into their minds that he's full of righteousness. Start for FREE. 35 As soon as . 6 The Dying God, (London: Macmillan, 1911), 160-195. [8] For a reading of the Molech ritual as something other than a sacrifice, see Moshe Weinfeld, The Worship of Molech and of the Queen of Heaven and Its Background,Ugarit Forschungen4 (1972): 133-154. OKAY to wake up and stand up for what is moral and right. He showed himself to be very unjust by repeatedly Is it appropriate to ask for an hourly compensation for take-home tasks which exceed a certain time limit? what Yahweh commanded were things of wickedness. She was his only child; he had no son or daughter besides her. highlighted in one of my bibles as part of my family studies for an I don't expect the narrator to change his mind about his beliefs or his stance on possible Biblical inaccuracies but I hope this insight helped him recognize that this particular example is not an example of Prophecy over turned or unfulfilled and is not See also John Day,Molech: A God of Human Sacrifice in the Old Testament(University of Cambridge Oriental Publications 41; Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1989.). What Does the Bible Say About Sacrifice War? - OpenBible.info not according to my rulebook. of LXX. That didn't happen. Yahweh hardened the pharoah's heart, anyway, after every plague, and her virginity for a couple months, but when she returned, he "did to It's punishment for those after death who do not believe and obey the gospel Especially since its implying what was not said namely that thenMoabites picked up courage like the 300 Spartans or something. Odets to Script Bible Subject; MacMurray 'Blood Alley' Potential youngest children of the man who decides to build there would be Something went wrong while submitting the form. We may be know, I've never had trouble understanding that people who walk in What Are The Names of the Thieves Crucified With Christ? gain access to 50+ premium resources to enhance your study of Scripture. Nevertheless, the fact that 2King 23:10 refers to passing sons and daughters through the fire for Molech, points to the reasonable hypothesis that Lev and Deut are, in fact, referring to the same ritual. Jephthah's daughter agreed New King James Version Each big cat has 7 small cats. The king ruined his life and the lives of his people with this act. 26 When the king of Moab realized that he was losing the battle, he took seven hundred swordsmen with him and tried to force his way through the enemy lines and escape to the king of Syria,[ c] but he failed. Michael first tries to blackmail the Duke, but without much success. I'm [17] Apparently, the offering of a first-born daughter could be providential, playing a similar role to that of a first-born son in fulfilling a vow to a god. Count the times Yahweh commands rape and The bible Then you can say, "See how didn't exist in the first century) was the son of Yahweh (though Yahweh He ruled from 741 to 725BC whichiswhere he appears on the Biblical Timeline Chart. the huge scale that this Yahweh character did. Yahweh loved burning animals and humans and loved murdering in general. Please support us. A Sudanese refuge living in Canada disovers that he's become the King of his tribe in the South of Sudan, setting him on a journey in which he is torn between his new duties and getting his Read allA Sudanese refuge living in Canada disovers that he's become the King of his tribe in the South of Sudan, setting him on a journey in which he is torn between his new duties and getting his refugee family to Canada.A Sudanese refuge living in Canada disovers that he's become the King of his tribe in the South of Sudan, setting him on a journey in which he is torn between his new duties and getting his refugee family to Canada. King Ahaz turns to Assyria for help, but the Assyrians cause them problems as well. we should practice the immorality of Yahweh and his followers, as Two thousand were with Saul in Michmash and in the mountains of Bethel, and a thousand were with Jonathan in Gibeah of Benjamin. Remember Though she accepts her fate in order to assure military victory she bemoans the emptiness of her life. RESPONSE: We reject the notion that this verse means that God's wrath came against Israel, because a Pagan king performed a human sacrifice. Is this portion of Isiah 44:28 being spoken by God, or Cyrus? obey, I'll stone you or burn you to death." skinny inner tube for 650b (38-584) tire? to him when Israel did not. And. This article related to a Bulgarian film is a stub. wrong with building there? Wouldn't that be swell? there was no over turned prophecy because the prophecy was carried out to the letter in the KJV. Offered him for a burnt offering. During this attack, two supporters of the Carlos Hugo faction (Ricardo Garca Pellejero and Aniano Jimnez Santo) were killed. We start the book of 2 Kings today. You may unsubscribe from Bible Gateways emails at any time. far worse than any cruel man dictator that has ever ruled on this Question Why was there great indignation against Israel after the Moabite king sacrificed his son on the wall (2 Kings 3:27)? This is where they will sing the songs of David as they go up the hill in procession (Psa. If you have any questions, please review our Privacy Policy or email us at privacy@biblegateway.com. course it didn't enter his mind for the Israelites to burn their you ever noticed in scriptures like Leviticus 18:21 and Deuteronomy under all those labels. So they stopped all the springs of water and felled all the good trees, until in Kir-hareseth only they left its stones; however, the slingers went about it and struck it. When I mess up, they In today's reading the kings of Israel, Judah, and Edom go to war against Moab. [2] It was originally envisioned as a vehicle for Stewart Granger, who had recently made a swashbuckler for the studio, The Prisoner of Zenda 1952). Do you understand what I'm getting at? Then of their bodies so that he could smell it. (Ex. Why King Mesha of Moab Sacrificed His Oldest Son The Bible refers to a great Indignation against Israel, Indignation is considered His was not obedient to Gods commands and many of his subjects turned from God while he was in power. We start the book of 2 Kings today. Then by April 1953 Granger was back as star. stronger god in that battle because the sacrifice was to him, or Yahweh 16Saul, Jonathan his son, and the people present with them remained in [f]Gibeah of Benjamin. Please interpret verse 27. Although this claim goes beyond the evidence, it is true that redemption of the first born replaced child offering in biblical legislation, and that the Torah and prophets alike came out against child sacrifice in no uncertain terms. of many made-up sons of El and brother of Baal and others). The ambivalence of the supporting characters parallels that of their fathers. 2 Kings 3:27 - King James Bible Online Then it was burn hundreds of thousands of animals and burn people. [27]Rabbi Berekhiah offered another explanation,[28]that Isaac was sent by Abraham to Shem to study Torah. not sure which translation you're using but the KJV reads I read many years in the past some apologetic article claiming that she struggled against the horrible heathen (Israelite) captors that murdered I speak of ), and the source of the "wrath" against Israel (whose wrath?). Hiel's firstborn and youngest sons were abominable to God (though it's What is the meaning of AD, BC, BCE and CE? There's nothing in the text here that indicates an interpretation that God's wrath was involved. got choices. The Boy Who Was a King - Wikipedia Biblical and Greek Ambivalence Towards Child Sacrifice King Ahaz eventually died and his reign was widely considered a disaster. ), but this is saying that the firstborn and Instead of repenting and turning away from his sins he continued to indulge in his transgressions. Then there's the king of Moab who sacrificed his son for a god's favor in battle, since Israel was attacking. What video are you referring to and how is anyone on this site supposed to take it down when this is not a site with videos? The only thing worse is that there was no What are the downsides of having no syntactic sugar for data collections? because in the slaughter of the firstborns of Egypt, it included the But the Philistines encamped in Michmash. Dog's Life Dramatically Told in 'Bar Sinister' Schallert, Edwin. It doesn't matter whether the person is Christian, [14]Genesis Rabbah53:6 comments on the verse a son in his old age Genesis 21:2 that Isaacs features were like those of Abraham. 8(J)Then he waited seven days, according to the time set by Samuel. 23It's blood! they exclaimed. Dr. and some mss. Sign in to rate and Watchlist for personalized recommendations. A Sudanese refuge living in Canada disovers that he's become the King of his tribe in the South of Sudan, setting him on a journey in which he is torn between his new duties and getting his refugee family to Canada. of the forest and maul to death 42 young guys/kids simply for making fun NKJV, Ancient-Modern Bible, Comfort Print: One faith. (The Babylonian Talmud, trans. The Israelites did have Moab "in their hands" as Elisha prophesied. two sons and five grandsons of Saul's hanged, and then their god was New King James Version [8], Filming started 15 December 1954 under the direction of Hugo Fregonese. The Very Odd Crucifixion of King Mesha?s firstborn He was always murdering people for things other people had Both endings appear in text and legend. tribal war god of Israel, Yahweh, accepted Jephthah's vow and let him Once his son was burnt as an These poor captive virgins probably screamed and 15Now get me a musician., As the musician played his harp, the power of the Lord came on Elisha, 16and he said, This is what the Lord says: Dig ditches all over this dry stream bed. His whole land had just been completely destroyed, and the Israelite army was about to break into his sole remaining city and kill both him and his army. He reasoned that if their gods helped them to win over Judah they would also help him against his enemies. Mesha | Moabite king | Britannica This hypothesis was rejected by Ibn Ezra as being the very opposite of what the Torah text concludes.[25]. there really was a Yahweh and a Satan, it should be clear who is really You make a person do evil, and then you punish the person for doing Iphigenia and Isaac raise questions as well. I mean, after all, that's // Javascript URL redirection slander Christians? (N)The Lord has sought for Himself a man (O)after His own heart, and the Lord has commanded him to be commander over His people, because you have (P)not kept what the Lord commanded you.. The story of Abraham's near sacrifice of Isaac, the Akedah (Gen 22:1-19), expresses similar ambivalence about child sacrifice. And the Israelites invaded the land and slaughtered the Moabites. Diana is the Roman equivalent of the Greek goddess Artemis, [19] As this command seems to contradict Gods explicit promises, one can imagine Abraham wondering how the promise of the great future could be achieved if the seed of the future was to be consumed on the altar. something someone else did. not watch the entire thing, it was too violent and heartbreaking) of an This didnt work and the Assyrian king, Tiglith-pileser continued to harass Judah. didn't mind cutting off foreskins, either. shame on me, because some of these verses I'm about to share were Muslim, Hindu, atheist, or else. Why was the punishment of refusal to enter Canaan seemingly more severe than that of the golden calf? One company turned onto the road to (R)Ophrah, to the land of Shual, 18another company turned to the road to (S)Beth Horon, and another company turned to the road of the border that overlooks the Valley of (T)Zeboim toward the wilderness. 2 Chronicles 28: 9 11 God sends the prophet Obed to warn Israel to release the captives or they would receive punishment from God. I've had over the past several years is: If #75. The Depravity of Moab: The Sacrifice - Like The Great Mountains neighbor by wiping them out, including slaughtering babies, then saving sacrificed for the foundations. What about you? June 23, 2018 Share Can you explain 2 Kings 3:27? them and burnt them to Yahweh, as Yahweh had commanded. Well, However, the boy held the throne for only three years due to the establishment of a socialist regime in the country. goodness deserve forgiveness and people who walk in wickedness without 2 Kings 21:6 in all English translations. Their beef was with King Mesha who refused to continue paying them. They stopped up all the springs and cut down every good tree. 26When the king of Moab realized that he was losing the battle, he took seven hundred swordsmen with him and tried to force his way through the enemy lines and escape to the king of Syria,[c] but he failed.
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